Paul J. Daly: Perfectionism Is The Enemy

By: Michael Cirillo   |   22 Mar 2022
Paul J Daly ASOTU

Paul J. Daly is the founder of ASOTU.com, the first-ever dealer-owned publication in the automotive industry. Michael and Paul recently joined up to collaborate at NADA with live streams, social media posting, and video production.

 

 

 

What we discuss in this episode:

  • Perfection is the enemy of "posted." It is better to have 10 posts at 80% of your ideal quality than it is to have 2 posts that meet your full criteria. 
  • If quick innovation is required to evolve then perfection and ego must be let go.
  • You cannot predict what people are actually going to connect with, so it's better to get it posted and let go of your ego. 
  • Paul explains that it often happens where the thing he thought would go well, rarely ever went as well as anticipated. Perfectionism is the enemy of progress. 
  • It's important to have an abundance mindset because there is enough opportunity to go around. In order to leverage abundance, one's ego must be pulled out of the equation to free yourself up and make room for the next level of growth. 
  • Listen to the full episode to learn even more insights from Paul Daly.

 

 

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Thanks, Paul J. Daly

If you enjoyed this conversation with Paul J. Daly, please let them know by clicking on the links below and sending him a message.

 

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Michael: All right. I'm sitting down with the man. On the heels of N a D a 2022, the men who wrote through like the fricking syndicate at the show with his crew, I was fortunate enough to be a part of that. Super grateful for the invitation, the founder of a soda.com super exciting announcement that I'll let him share.

[00:00:20] Paul J. Bailey what's going on? My man, what is

[00:00:24] Paul: up? I can not believe. That we got to spend so much time together. Like we've been talking about Hey, it'll be nice to spend a little time together. And we ended up like spending hours and hours together rocking the show, interviewing people, getting tackled by people.

[00:00:41] It was awesome.

[00:00:43] Michael: And meeting so many new people. Oh, actually, can we just dispel something for a minute? I got tackled.

[00:00:53] You, you quickly were like, my reflex was like a cat. I was like, I will be the brick wall in this rendition of the brick wall. It's like looking up like,

[00:01:07] and then you get up. I don't know if you notice this. You're like, ah, we just got tackled by Glen Lundy. I'm like, We just got tackled the Royal way. Just got tackled because Michael gets back. Oh my gosh. That was so much fun though. It was cool to see a couple of things and I want to draw attention first to, you and I, our marketing guys, we both have our marketing teams and we do, we have client partners and we talk a lot about scrapping.

[00:01:34] Witnessing your level of scrappiness firsthand was very inspiring. Getting to sit down with your team and legitimately seeing them do everything on their I-phones and then throwing it into Instagram right away and just like post post, get it out. That was super inspiring. But what stood in my mind stood out in my mind is dealerships can be doing this.

[00:01:56] It doesn't have to always be and elaborate and whatever, but like, how did you guys get to that point? What was the methodology behind? Like, how do you let go? I guess of perfectionism in, in lieu of

[00:02:08] Paul: it's funny conversation have after we just spent five minutes talking about dialing in the gate and compressor on podcasts, microphone.

[00:02:18] Okay. Perfection is the enemy of. Is something that I always think in context of, and as a, oh, did I lose you? Are you still. You're still there. Oh, I'm sorry. You're just being fancy with production. Perfection is the enemy of posted and as a former recording artist and someone who really made my way into the creative world through making music or, audio I've come to really appreciate the statement.

[00:02:41] It's never completed. Only released, never finished. Only released. You have to decide at some point when you're going to let it out into the world or you'll tweak for. And then you'll tweak so much that you'll go back to the version before you started tweaking. And it sounds way better than after all you're tweaking, right?

[00:03:00] Because you lose perspective. And so in the world we live in now, I realized that having 10 things out into the world that are like, 80% of the ideal of where I would like it is so much more valuable to connect with people than having one thing out or two things out that I'm like super proud of because the shot to the ego that I always take is that the thing I spent a lot of time on that I think is going to do really well, rarely does really well.

[00:03:28] It's usually the name that I'm not, I just put out there because you cannot press. What people are actually going to connect with. So how do you get past it? You have to swallow your pride and really, because not wanting to do that is a level of creative ego that we have, I had when I was, I went through the Vayner mentors program with Gary Vaynerchuk and where I so distinctly remember him putting in me in my place in a very Gary Vaynerchuk type of way.

[00:03:53] So we're sitting there and it's funny, and this is a snare. My wife was even in the room at this point. So we're at like, we're at a strategy meeting. We're at Hudson yards. We're in New York. And, and we're talking about LinkedIn, we're talking about Facebook, we're talking about B2B marketing to other auto dealers.

[00:04:08] And at the time, I don't have, I still don't have a big Instagram following it's, sub 3000 people. And, at the time I had like a. 400 or something like that. And I was like, how do I, get my Instagram account to something respectable? And at the time something respectable to me is always right.

[00:04:26] A few more than you already have. No matter how much money is enough money. Just a little bit more than I have now. And and and Gary's He's if you need to do that for your ego, then we can talk about that, but it's not going to help your business. And I was like, that's good.

[00:04:40] Michael: And so can you say it like him?

[00:04:42] Have you nailed a Gary V impression? Yes. Yes.

[00:04:44] Paul: I don't even try. Okay. That's fair. I

[00:04:48] Michael: imagine the register was probably pretty high.

[00:04:50] Paul: He no, the opposite is true because when you get Gary in a private meeting, like my experience has been, he brings it way down. Way down and then over time ramps, when he gets excited about something. But when he says he listens, like he really listens and he's lower key and quiet quieter. And granted, you see so much behind the scenes with Gary, you would think I know him, but Hey he changed my paradigm. So no, he was just leaning back in his chair.

[00:05:16] He's leaning back in his chair and he's playing with the curtain core that he always does in Hudson yards. You can see them doing it and he'd just sit in there against the windows and he's playing with this thing and he was just. If you feel like you need that for your ego then yeah, we can talk about that.

[00:05:30] But, and it wasn't in a judgemental kind of way, either really litmus testing me is is it important to you? If so, I can tell you, and at that moment I was like, yeah, I guess it's not important. And we just kept moving.

[00:05:41] Michael: It's so true. And I know even in the last, however many years of producing this show, I've gone through so many phases of ego.

[00:05:51] 'cause I'm like I have to have the right set and the right lights and the. But it's this perceived what does that mean at the end of the day? And did it actually get in the way of me doing what, like Tim Zion was showing me where it's rip this sucker out, flip that thing into Instagram and post it also though, to your point about ego.

[00:06:12] We've even seen phases of this in automotive. Maybe there's still some that subscribed to this, but it's oh, he's only. 3000 followers. What does that even mean? And it's dude, I've seen people with a hundred thousand followers who still don't get any engagement. What is

[00:06:26] Paul: the weekend is garbage, right?

[00:06:28] It's spam engaged because when you get a counselor to have more engagement and more and more, I'll see like going it's everyone's like selling you. Like it's a bot just posting. I don't know by my privates.

[00:06:40] Michael: Yeah, exactly. Post this to last Vegas, nudes.com you're like,

[00:06:47] Paul: and hashtag Carrillo. And no but to, to your point about you do see this in automotive, and I think we've been conditioned as society to credit followers to credibility, and that's not a straight line and the.

[00:07:02] Industry like the smaller you boil it down. So pop culture, right? Followers, you look at a Kardashian or somebody like that, right? The hundreds of millions of followers or tens of millions or millions, you start to look at that and you're like that's cultural credibility. But when you're thinking industry, the smaller, the industry gets actually the fewer followers you're actually need to make an impact.

[00:07:21] And I think it is an industry in automotive. It's about focus, right? Who are the people following? Is a big deal, yes, maybe somebody only has 2000 followers on LinkedIn, but those 2000 followers could be like the most relevant players in automotive. And that's what matters.

[00:07:42] What matters is that counts it's business development. Cause all of the things that I've done in social media, real, the real value of all those as business develop.

[00:07:52] Michael: Yeah. And in that context, you realize ha you know we went through this phase of bigger equals more. And to your point, no, because I can only do, I can only do meaningful business development with a few especially in the context of my business, I'm not an influencer and I don't have.

[00:08:12] A shoe line to say I don't have a big, broad, like pro everyday use product. And so what does it matter if I have 150,000 followers on LinkedIn versus 500 or for that matter 30, but this group of 30 is so tight knit and we do amazing things together. W E I love how you said it's not a straight

[00:08:31] Paul: line.

[00:08:32] It isn't a straight line because when you put it that way, there is a level of. I'm just trying to think of who do I pay attention to and who do I think most pay people pay attention to quickly. I think there's a baseline somewhere in there, right? If I come up first of all, LinkedIn algorithm won't let me come across you if you only have 30, probably.

[00:08:51] But there is like this baseline of work and effort you have to put in order to put up a credible show. Probably like a lot of people you put some time in, or you come across a new account and you can look in recent posts, right? What are they doing? Are they posting right?

[00:09:04] What are they posting? So there has to be like, so I think if you show up with 30 followers, probably not paying attention. If you show up with 500, maybe if you have a thousand, and then that's going to vary per platform. But all of that still I teach my son this, and I've taught him this for years when he he's 15 now.

[00:09:23] And he started making content on a platform. Oh man, what was it called? Oh, kids call it

[00:09:29] Michael: tick talk. Paul

[00:09:32] Paul: called it was like three roadblocks and before. Okay. And they could post these little animated video. And, I would just always remember telling him was like, Hey, more than all the other stuff, you're paying attention.

[00:09:44] If you make good content that is relevant to the honest, people will always pay attention. And maybe not the first time or the second time, but again, back to the first part of the conversation, you never know what's going to pop. And so the ego has to be pulled out. If you are going to free yourself up to post more, our friend, Darren don't, he says we're not precious.

[00:10:04] Don't be precious. The second you get precious over the lighting or the color correction or the design elements. The second you do that, you then it's. You really do want to set a bar and it's more important for some people than other people like with automotive state of the union brand, I started off very particular and in the last six months I have taken my foot off the pedal, caring as much about how everything looks, because I know that we need to start getting, I've just watched too much content, just literally die in the editing.

[00:10:39] Don and an automotive it's like things change so fast. So it's like I had hours and hours of content from a beautiful live event in Philly that I paid a lot of money to make happen personally, to make happen. It was the first live automotive event back from the pandemic in Philly, right between shutters.

[00:10:55] And at this beautiful venue and, top tier speakers that flew in just for that day, I'm talking to Rhett Riker and in Ben stock in London. And just for this, and guess what? We probably released 10% of the content we had by the time I got around to it. I'm like, oh, this is all irrelevant now.

[00:11:14] It's all irrelevant. Like I can't post it. You can put it on YouTube for archival. And I've just watched that happen enough now that I'm like, I'm not going to do that.

[00:11:23] Michael: I love it. So let's use that to shift gears a little bit. You mentioned automotive state of the union. Of course I see it.

[00:11:29] I love this machine that you're building, but tell me a little bit about that. And of course, the announcement that you guys shared at NADH yeah.

[00:11:36] Paul: I'll go in reverse order. So the announcement we just shared is that the automotive state of the union, a S O T U a so two is what I'll call it from now on.

[00:11:44] We just announced that we have raised an initial closed and initial round of. And all of the seven investors are notable dealers or general managers in automotive. So we are the only, now the only dealer owned media publisher in the automotive industry past present, and maybe future. We'll see. And so we just announced that at the show we been working on it for awhile and our philosophy at automotive state of the union is basically, there are so many people in the automotive industry that are not paying attention to anything.

[00:12:13] Automotive related, right? No newsletters, no subscriptions, no email lists, nothing and so much about needing to unlock the talent within the industry and needing to innovate quickly. And we see time and time again, that the friction to that growth and innovation is just the lack of a consistent conversation throughout the store.

[00:12:32] You have owners and executives, GMs paying attention to some of the top tier media offerings like automotive news. Or you had to have a CBT subscription, but then once you lose that, when you get on. You get into all these other service advisors and salespeople and managers and receptionists and back office people and technologists and BDC folks that don't have real, any connection with the industry.

[00:12:54] And we believe that if we make content that appeals to the broad scope of all of those people and that is fun to read. And that gets us all talking about some, consistent conversation points. We think that lack of friction is going to. All sorts of innovation and energy.

[00:13:10] That's already within automotive. We just have to figure out a way to get it out. That's why these dealers are invested. That's why we knew it was important to involve dealers because we need our hands in the dirt. And now as an ownership team, we have easy access to hands in the dirt. And we're not talking about slouches either.

[00:13:26] We're talking about the Bryan Kramers and Liza borches and Brian Benstock and Damon Lester, david Long. This is the caliber person we're talking about. That's our place. So we're a media company now, automotive state of the union. It went from a little COVID livestream that like, let's figure out what's going on right into, let's just stay connected, building community.

[00:13:45] And here we go. Now what we'll see and try to light the rocket shot.

[00:13:49] Michael: I think it's tremendous. And I love the concept and it really, it aligns with something that I think about often, which. It's cool to be a known resource to this pool of people that are already in the know, but what's even cooler where I think you and I share a very similar vision is, but what about Brenda in dog lick Nebraska.

[00:14:18] Who's never gone to a company. Who's never gone to an NADH who probably doesn't even know that conferences exists. They're just showing up day in and day out to do their job. I want to reach that individual. I want to reach Don at yeah. I want to reach yeah, exactly. And so I love this, we, we heard Erica, Tiffany talking about how we need to be better at sharing with others, that this industry is worth working.

[00:14:44] I'm building a life in an, a career in. And so I see this mission that you have with a Sodo, and like you said, having real hands in the dirt, so to speak as a real cool medium to bring information to the people in the industry, like just really get far reaching into the industry. And I congratulate you guys on that.

[00:15:00] I think it's super cool.

[00:15:02] Paul: Yeah. Thank you. Erica, her whole, I think she's one that, that said it. I quoted it for the rest of the NAD. I wish I knew who said it, maybe maybe it was David Mills. I don't know, but either way it was at the auto retail forum and they said automotive has no ceiling.

[00:15:17] A lot of industries have no ceiling. Automotive is one of the few industries that also has no floor, right? Yes. And because of that stuck in my brain, and there's so much investment and money and conversation and enthusiasm around technology and platforms, but there's no. Around, like, how do we onboard people?

[00:15:37] Maybe you have some hiring technology, but it's so much more impactful when you just ignite the passion inside someone who's already in the industry, because they're just going to tell everybody, and and you've probably seen this because when you go to events and when you meet people, you bring a whole different energy to this industry.

[00:15:56] And there are so many times I've heard people say, I actually, you said this to me over the last few weeks and you said, I didn't realize. There was anyone else who thought the same way that I did about this industry. And there is an amazing thing that happens when you put the beacon up and people realize that they're not alone.

[00:16:16] It's like in those doomsday movies or those post-apocalyptic when you see the fire on the mountain, right? Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. Someone else survived too. Let's find each other. So I feel like that's what. And

[00:16:31] Michael: this is certainly, yeah, this is certainly a big thing that I've been thinking about since NADH throughout the show, of course, but I love the way that you just articulated that.

[00:16:42] Cause it really is. It's like going from feeling like you're alone in the woods to all of a sudden seeing a flame light up. It was a flame and then seeing one down the road and more so I think than any other time in my career, I'm seeing more and more people rising up and saying, I'm a beacon on a hill.

[00:17:01] Like here it is. Here's why, and it's so incredibly refreshing. This is probably a good segue into just getting some of your thoughts as now. It's been a few days since the show, what are some of the overarching. Feelings thoughts, impressions that have been flowing through your mind since, having all those conversations and getting to hear things like Damien saying that there's no ceiling and there's no floor.

[00:17:26] And I picked up on an emphasis around people, for sure. Oh yeah, no, I can. What are your, what's your take? What are your big thoughts from NADH

[00:17:34] Paul: affirm that in inkling and instinct and even in conversations I've had, since in ADA with a lot of dealers and people that were there. Most people said, I didn't really see anything new.

[00:17:47] I didn't really see any like real significant, substantial shift in innovation, which is understandable. Which is understandable. We saw a lot of, Evie charging ports. But that's not that's not a new innovation. It's just,

[00:18:00] Michael: you walk through a carwash.

[00:18:02] Paul: I still love.

[00:18:04] That was new for me, I've been walked through a carwash and that's probably the only place I'll do that. And I did. So I heard that common thread over and over that I didn't really see anything new. And usually what's tacked onto the end of that. Is that what there seems to be a very high attention on culture and recruiting.

[00:18:26] And I picked up on. From both the dealer and the industry partners side and parsing that out. I think some of that has to do with the fact that many of those people haven't been together in two years. So the last time they were around the industry or other people in the industry and that energy was two years prior at, in the same way.

[00:18:48] So I think that probably increases that feeling a little bit. I've been to many shows in the last two years, and I can definitely say the conversations around that. I feel like people are catching on, it's always hit, your people are your best asset. And we've heard that for decades, but I do have a deep sense that the retail automotive industry is getting to the point of really embracing it and really believing it is true. Not just saying it.

[00:19:19] Michael: Yeah, I love the way that you put that. It's somebody asked me it might've been Frank Lopes. He asked w okay.

[00:19:28] I'm sitting at this booth all day. What's the kind of buzz topics that you're going to hear out there. And I really just felt the impression to shift the conversation to people because I was picking up on something very similar. And it is refreshing. And I do agree with you. I fought a little bit about this as well.

[00:19:45] I was thinking about it on the flight home, ma I just trying to get clarity for myself. I'm like, okay, maybe it's that we're on the heels of a pandemic. And so we're realizing the importance of human touch and all of those sorts of things, but, ma maybe we, we did need that experience to realize let me say this.

[00:20:06] I even know that. In times past where dealers would traditionally or historically turn their badges around. So the vendors wouldn't know who they were. I was noticing booths in the far reaching corners of hall, a, which was like,

[00:20:21] Paul: that's

[00:20:21] Michael: a long walk. They were still like, they were still doing really well.

[00:20:27] There was really good traffic. And I thought about, maybe we've just arrived at this place where it's no longer vendor versus dealer. Maybe we're realizing we can't do this without each other. We legitimately need each other to make this business go.

[00:20:43] Paul: I it's hard. It's hard for me to benchmark.

[00:20:46] I've been to NADH show on a dealer badge on a vendor badge exhibitor badge on a speaker badge. This year is my first time on a press page. So they all had distinctly different experiences for me. And the one I remember, I very much, my first one, I was on a dealer batch and I just remember being like Hawk down.

[00:21:06] And I'm like, look, I don't even work here. Yeah. The people that do, like doop, doop scan my badge. And this time granted, I was running around with a camera crew and a microphone and like a little crazy, so I may have missed it. But my, what I perceive is that in my limited perception, is that what you said was true?

[00:21:24] I didn't get that. I didn't get that same, like walking through the gauntlet perception of even what was happening around me. And maybe that is a major shift in auto because it you'd be very hard pressed to find a dealer. I think these days that doesn't realize they need a team of really smart people, that aren't going to be their employees.

[00:21:48] All right. In order to

[00:21:49] Michael: survive. Yup. It was I felt emphasis on. There and don't get me wrong. This is generalized in what I'm about to say, but in times past where the narrative has been largely like, oh, you're a, you don't, you've never sold a car. Therefore you don't understand. Or on the flip side, it's you've never deployed a successful marketing campaign.

[00:22:14] So you don't understand. It was more like how about we both help each other understand because knowledge can be acquired. And if you have a teachable skill set and I have a teachable skill set, why don't we just share the knowledge? One thing I'll just say for those listening automotive in times past has always had this very, like we're are a competitive industry, but I really do think we're coming around to this idea of, but the person we're competing against.

[00:22:43] Really as ourselves work, we're competing against our own company to be a little bit better today than we were yesterday. And in, so doing one thing I'll just say, I think is so refreshing in times past don't get I get it. I was early to the game on podcasting, but it's funny in those years, since people go is said, okay, if we start a podcast, right?

[00:23:06] I'm like, dude, let's roll. Let's go, man. What do you want to know? What can I help you with, to accomplish your goal? Yes. Which is so different. And so I thought it was really cool firsthand where you're a juggernaut and I've got an established presence in automotive for people to see both of us rolling through and freely giving of ourselves and how cool it was like magic happens, is what I want to say to those listening.

[00:23:37] Magic happens when you can just say. The time I've been doing this as irrelevant in contrast to what I hope to learn moving forward. Oh, that's good. So to sit here, like for me, where people are like, you've got it all figured out for me to just vulnerably go to your team and be like, I got no fricking clue what I'm doing and they'd be like, dude.

[00:23:57] And they would just so freely open the phone to okay, download this app. And after you download this app, you're going to do it. And I'm like, this is what it's all about, guys. This is actually what this industry is about.

[00:24:07] Paul: A hundred percent. It's this is where the it's an abundance mentality.

[00:24:13] It's understanding that there is more than enough, our friend and, my business coach, Dave Meltzer has, he says, there are people that approach the day with not enough, just enough or more than enough, and it's that more than enough mentality that actually allows you to perceive.

[00:24:32] Than you ever would, because when you're worried about protecting your just enough or fighting in this mentality, like there's not going to be enough for all of us. I have to get mine. You are now your focus has been narrowed right on survival. When, if you're like via the mentality Hey, there's more than enough podcast listeners.

[00:24:53] There's more than enough social media views. There's more than enough, for me to give, I can give you everything I have and know that there's a lot more for me out there too. Once you do that and you start moving through the world, you actually are able to openly perceive your perceptors and your receivers are all on now.

[00:25:11] And you're going to pick up things that you never would have when, instead of just worrying about, that there's a linebacker running toward me and you narrow your vision and that's all I have to concentrate on and you get tackled and I duck right. It's to bring that back around. There is a video by the way of Glen Lindy coming in hot and just before he comes in, I duck and he levels Michael.

[00:25:33] And I didn't even realize that happened until Glen showed me. He's this is what kind of friend Paul Daley is.

[00:25:38] Michael: This is the, yeah. He broke it apart quicker. Faster than anybody. He watched it and he's wait, rewind. And he immediately, I, I had to throw in the Karen looking for an insurance claim fall to the ground, your

[00:25:52] Paul: feet, and then you hit the ground and then you rolled over several times.

[00:25:55] Yeah, it was good. It was good. It was a little LeBron moment. LeBron,

[00:25:59] Michael: it's so true. This idea of. In business, we tend to love these inspirational quotes, a rising tide lifts, all boats. We love the sound of that, the best voice to read inspirational quotes, but it is so much different in application.

[00:26:15] But if we, I feel like, people, I know people that have come to me and they're like, I saw you doing so much stuff with Paul and his crew. What's that all about? And it's so easy for me to just say, because I support what they're doing. And to understand you don't think that they're supporting me by letting me allowing me into that ecosystem to be a part of that as well.

[00:26:37] This is what collaboration looks like. It's not to your point, preserving what I've been able to keep. It's literally saying, Hey, we see value in you and value in me. Can we do something together to it's you could have easily been like, Oh, no we're competing against the dealer playbook.

[00:26:57] Therefore, we can not do anything with Michael because we need to show that we stand into, we can stand on our own. We don't need anybody or I could have easily done the same thing.

[00:27:07] Paul: No. That is such a brand. I can't that's my

[00:27:09] Michael: brand. What does it mean if I bring in a quote unquote competitors dude, we're not competitors.

[00:27:13] We're collaborators way. We're in this together. How can we be in the same industry and on a different.

[00:27:21] Paul: Geez. That's a whole other layer. Yeah, it's funny. It's funny. You and I both have strangely similar agencies, I didn't even realize that it was just our last trip and I'm just like, so tell me about your business from the podcast, but you obviously have a business, right?

[00:27:37] We talk about it. We realize we both have very similar businesses and it's Glen Pash has done a great job. Did a good job of shaping my thinking on this. Because if you ever go to one of their events, like one of the past events, DMAC is the main ones and they have a PCG as an agency and they have all these other agencies that show up stream companies.

[00:27:57] And, and Glen's if we just got a fraction of the. Of new clients that are out. Like he goes, I'd be doing cartwheels. You know what I mean? I'm not looking for 70 new clients, but if I get four and we go home with four, he goes, our team is stoked. And that's that abundance mentality. I talked to a dealer at ADA and he said, Ford dealer.

[00:28:20] And so we were talking about, what decision is he going to make is going to be Ford blue and sell ice vehicles, or just go eat or do both. Because if you are going to sell electric feelers, you have to make an investment right. In order to do so it's going to do both. And he said, if I really want to do this I should have all of the competitive vehicles onsite.

[00:28:38] I'm going to buy one of the competitive cars. And so when people come, I want to teach them how to operate in. And then I'm going to let them see all the differences and nuances in person. I'm going to be the one that walks them through it. And that mentality of oh cause there's a lot more to be gained in being the one that people trust as they learn about EVs and onboard them than just being like no, don't go anywhere else.

[00:29:02] Here's the one you need to buy, and that, that kind of is indicative of what we're talking about right now. There's an element of thinking bigger than just playing trends, again, it's back to defense. It's if I'm, if I look time to make sure people don't know about Michael solo, because you know what I mean? Exactly. What does that do for me? It just limits me

[00:29:23] Michael: it and, there's a couple of thoughts I have on that. I think of, if I were to open our TV console, I'm not just going to see one workout DVD. I'm going to see multiple from multiple different people. There's this part of our human nature, where we make room for the things that we enjoy with abundance.

[00:29:46] So for example, it was funny. I remember when we were primarily a print publishing house and we were. Making the transition into digital and getting away from print. We were still in this phase where we're like, no, we need to validate print. Like we need to go heavy on this because everybody's thinking digital and print is going to go away.

[00:30:06] And I saw this keynote from somebody, one of the editors in chief at oh shoot. One of the big Conde Nast. And at the time she said, Human beings, don't replace. They make room for and she said, for example, radio was supposed to kill the. TV was supposed to kill. The radio movies were supposed to kill TV.

[00:30:35] Cinema was supposed to kill TV and the internet was supposed to kill them all. Yet, here we are Broadway. We love going to live theater we've we still Sirius XM is still posting profits in radio. The new age of radio podcasting has emerged and people are realizing, no, I still love listening. There is still a place where I only want audio.

[00:30:59] Paul: Because I still consume everything that you just said.

[00:31:02] Michael: Exactly. There's still room. We actually make room for all of these things in a similar way, to your point, about an abundance mindset. There is so much room. One of the things I love about automotive is there is room for a company to have 17,000 clients.

[00:31:19] And there is room for a solo printer to have four clients and be happy. Yeah.

[00:31:24] Paul: And it's so tremendous to me. And it's a good fit for the client. Exactly a hundred percent. I love that mentality.

[00:31:31] Michael: I love that, man. I love this conversation, I love hanging out and chatting with you. How can those listening learn more about a

[00:31:38] Paul: Soto?

[00:31:38] Yeah. Just go to a sotu.com. That's a S O T u.com. We have a daily email Monday through Friday that we put our heart and soul into. If at the very least. If you don't learn a little something, we hope you'll at least get a little laugh out of our very carefully curated gift. You have collection and little telling it like it is slightly snarky, but with hearts commentary to all the day's news, so a soda.com and then go and go into the rabbit hole from there.

[00:32:08] Michael: I love it. And can I leave you with this parting, people get tired at NADH. You had a Sodo and ada.com? I think, yes. Don't ask me why. The first day we were actually sitting in the auto news retail forum and I'm looking down and I'm reading. So tuna, duh,

[00:32:30] Paul: and I'm

[00:32:30] Michael: like

[00:32:34] what? In the flippers? And then I'm like, oh, APA

[00:32:42] is also turnoff. So anyway, man, love you. Appreciate you. So glad to have you on the show today.

[00:33:03] I'm Michael Cirillo and you've been listening to the dealer playbook podcast. If you haven't yet, please click the subscribe button wherever you're listening. Right now, leave a rating or review and share it with a colleague. Thanks for listening.