Paul de Vries: 6 Steps To Successful Lead Handling (For Car Dealers)

By: Michael Cirillo   |   30 Jun 2022
Paul de Vries

Paul de Vries is the founder of DCDW (Digital Car Dealer Network), ambassador for Marktplaats (Holland), and a brand new owner of a Ligier franchise dealership in Holland. He is an expert at lead handling and works with several OEMs in Europe to improve their lead handling and appointment show percentages. In this episode of The Dealer Playbook, Paul breaks down his 6 steps to lead handling that can help any dealership increase their car sales opportunities. 


Key Takeaways From This Episode:

03:39 - It's very easy to analyze lead responses in a PowerPoint or spreadsheet, but when the reality of the day sets in it can be very difficult to manage. Dealers need to be practical in understanding why leads are important and that no matter how they arrive, they represent another human being who is expressing interest in the dealership's vehicles, parts, or services.

05:05 - The goal is to remove the 100% dependency on BDCs and outsourced agents and train salespeople to be better at working with leads on their own. If we can move the need so that only 10% of car salespeople are better at lead handling, we will make a bigger impact than we make our BDC agents. We can't get away with not knowing the product we sell. It's imperative to know the product so that we can quickly answer all the questions that customers have.



07:15 - The dynamic of the car shopper is changing rapidly which means that we need to continue training to keep up with their ways of doing business. Today if we don't answer the lead within one minute, customers get angry. In Europe, WhatsApp is typically the preferred method of communication because other systems are seen as outdated. In contrast, to the USA or Canada where SMS messaging is the holy grail (outside of the phone).

12:46 - Paul shares his experience being a car dealer again and opening a Ligier franchise experience store in Holland. 

26:55 - Paul breaks down the six steps to successful lead handling. When put into motion, car dealers can see an increase in leads to appointments and appointments to demos by training car salespeople to properly handle leads. 

Listen or watch the full episode for even more insights and context from Paul de Vries! 

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Thanks, Paul de Vries!
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[00:00:34] Michael: All right, gang. I am sitting down now. With a D P B alum guest, my good friend, Paul dere. He is an ambassador of marked plots. He is a dealer of a franchise brand new, by the way, we're gonna talk about that. He is an international speaker. He's the founder of the dealer. What do we call it? C D w dealership car.

[00:00:59] What does it stand for? I just call it

[00:01:01] Paul de Vries: the digital car dealer workshop,

[00:01:03] Michael: digital car dealer workshop. And he has been making waves ever since I met him many, many years ago. Good friend of mine, Paul, thanks so much for joining me on the dealer playbook podcast.

[00:01:14] Paul de Vries: Happy to be here and very honored to be here for the first time.

[00:01:18] So

[00:01:19] Michael: is this number three? I thought it was four.

[00:01:21] Paul de Vries: I fought

[00:01:22] Michael: free, but okay. Maybe it is three. Well, you always, you always share very practical. Information and I love it. Mm-hmm um, recently you and I were together in Kentucky at David Kane's event where I listened to you speak was also your unofficial photographer.

[00:01:42] Yeah. Uh, um, my wife loves the pictures by the way. Oh, that's good. That's good. Um, I'm glad she does, uh, happy birthday to her, by the way. Have you asked her how it feels to be 29?

[00:01:55] Paul de Vries: Uh, no 34. I said to her, yeah, if I stay under the 40, then it will be fine. Right. yeah, for now.

[00:02:06] Michael: Oh man. I, um, I always enjoy listening to you speak, like I said, because it's so practical here you are, where everybody's got, you know, their slide decks and PowerPoint presentations.

[00:02:19] And you asked me, you said, I just have a big notepad. Do you think that's gonna be okay? And I said, I think that's gonna be fantastic. A yeah, because it's different B because it, to, to me, what I really drew from this and what I want the listener to understand is how well you have to know your stuff.

[00:02:36] Mm-hmm when the canvas is blank and you have to fill it in while you speak. Um, You spoke about what, what I can only suggest is the science of how to manage and handle, um, leads and appointments that come through your online properties and stuff. And so I wanna turn this over to you. Can you give us a, a brief synopsis of the subject matter you spoke about at David's event?

[00:03:04] What you're seeing now, perhaps now that you're a dealer where your mind is going on, how to handle leads effectively.

[00:03:11] Paul de Vries: Yeah, of course. Um, the subject matter we, we touched upon is, um, wide lead handling is so difficult. It is so easy in a PowerPoint. It is so easy in Excel or in a white campus. How to, how it.

[00:03:28] How it should work. But, uh, in, in, in the panic of the day, in the madness of the day's work at the dealership, it is not, is not a ball game. So you have to be very practical to help dealers to understand why leads are important. And sometimes I'm very tired to say this again and again and again, because after all we are saying that for the last 20 years, A lead.

[00:03:56] It doesn't matter how it comes in, but it is still an human being, asking some, some information. Um, and I touched upon, uh, the six step program we developed by accident, uh, with Toyota at the Netherlands here, um, where they ask. Us to help them with the lead follow up. And the first thing they, uh, we, uh, we talked about, um, why our BDC, I'm also the co-owner of BDC in Holland, how the BDC can work together with the dealers to perform better on lead handling.

[00:04:33] And when we talked about it, we said to each other, why in the hell is it possible that we can teach N BDC rep with a minimum salary in comparison with a car salesman that we can teach? We can teach him or her how to do it, and we cannot teach the sales. Right. And that changed the whole dynamic of the conversation because the OEM has 105 dealer stores, about 350 sales people.

[00:05:05] If we can move the needle of that sales people for only 10% to be better in lead handling, we will make a bigger impact than we make our BDC agents. Five. Is them better? Handling leads. So we changed the dynamics and we, and we developed the six steps program where the sales people were the, the, the diamond, the centerpiece of all.

[00:05:30] And we developed tools. We developed manuals, processes, training, coaching. Um, but we emphasize a lot about the sales people and how to handle leads, because I don't know how is in America, how it is in Canada, but OEMs in Europe are spending a lot of money to train sales people about the product.

[00:05:53] Everything about the product they should know. Right. But how to handle leads of how to handle an objection is something they don't teach upon only at school maybe, or in one podcast or in one book or whatever. And that is. Almost lost art because back in the day, 50 years ago, they were saying, Hey, an online lead online customers are different.

[00:06:17] We need other people to, to handle those people and that's that's wrong in definitions. So, um, my presentation was going about the six steps and what we started with and where we ended, uh, last year in conversion and wide world.

[00:06:37] Michael: Let me ask you this to, to give some context, right? Because especially in automotive, we want everything now.

[00:06:46] Yes. But you said you developed this with your Toyota, um, OEM in Holland, how long, and I'm sure you're still, you know, iterating and getting new ideas and stuff, but initially. How long did it take for you to formulate the plan and start to implement it?

[00:07:07] Paul de Vries: We're working now on the plan for the last four years and still not finished because the, the consumer is changing all the way.

[00:07:15] And cause the dynamic of the consumer four years ago is different than it is now. If I don't answer the lead now within one minute they are anxious. They are angry. They are not satisfied, etcetera. And all those kind of things. And also. If you don't have an WhatsApp integration follow up system in Europe, then you are toast as well because the private email is not is your last resort of communication and not your first or your second.

[00:07:49] And you can do better in postal card than, than send an email to private, private email at. Add the risk.

[00:07:57] Michael: Right. Talk, talk to me about WhatsApp for a little bit. I mean, I know pretty much everywhere else in the world, except for north America has adopted WhatsApp. Yeah. When you're talking about WhatsApp integration into your follow up process, are you saying that there's some way for somebody to just click WhatsApp and it opens up and a conversation starts.

[00:08:18] Paul de Vries: Yet can be, it can be, uh, first start, uh, we perceived in Europe, SMS or text as an old, uh, old platform, right? That's something you did with Nokia and you don't do it with an iPhone. That's the way we that's the way we see it. Um, and when WhatsApp was coming up, it was actually. Because you only need an on, uh, uh, data stream.

[00:08:48] You need only to have wifi and then you can text each other right back. Then you have to pay the, the telecom provider for every text. So that's why it went from nothing to. Everything in, in six months or so. And, um, now if you, if you don't have a WhatsApp integration in your lead management system or in your, on your website or whatever the case will be, then your follow up will not be that effective, then it should be, if you are using.

[00:09:24] On the other hand, if you're using now text, because text is still used by the banks is still used by the dentist is an fortune platform. Nobody is using it. So there's not many message messages going around that platform. So your message will. We'll pick up maybe faster than WhatsApp, because in WhatsApp you can have 200 messages in a day of your friends and friend groups, et cetera, and whatever the case will be.

[00:09:56] So maybe it will shift again, but we don't know. So we have to be agile again,

[00:10:03] Michael: it kind of reminds me of direct mail versus, you know, email. We got to a point where email marketing's adoption was so broad that people were finding direct mail became effective again, because it stood out there wasn't as much direct mail happening.

[00:10:22] I think that's interesting that you're noting that also then I would just like to note for those listening, when I asked Paul for his phone number to update his phone number, He let me know that I was a dinosaur using SMS, text messaging. Um, and, and I think you correct me if I'm wrong, but you even said, the only reason I have it is because you and David Kane still text me.

[00:10:49] Paul de Vries: yeah. Yeah. That's that's the only, that's the only person. Yes. Which I have. Text communication flow with first, we started through Facebook messenger, I thought. Right. And, uh, but, but, but it is true. The American friends I have, uh, uh, is text dominant. But, uh, even Brian is, is Brian PE is learning to use WhatsApp on a regular basis because it's, it, it, it works like dynamite in Europe or Italy

[00:11:23] Michael: or whatever, right.

[00:11:25] That, that makes sense. But also to your point, though, I'd like to just highlight that, uh, a broken clock still tells the time correctly, at least twice per. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe to your point, Paul, if things start to switch back to SMS, maybe I was just ahead of the.

[00:11:45] Paul de Vries: You can be ahead of the curve again again.

[00:11:50] No, but it's, it is never to be right or wrong or, or, uh, right. Uh, this which communication channel the customer uses we have to use. Right. And we have too much emphasis on platforms on. Online retailers, where they want to funnel the consumer in their funnel. Sure. And I want to be fascinating. The funnel, the customers choosing, if you choose to, to send a letter that can be as well.

[00:12:29] Michael: Yeah, that makes sense. I wanna, I wanna have you break down. If possible the six steps or maybe a few, maybe the first four, whatever you're most comfortable with. I'd love to learn more about the six steps, but before we go there, DPB gang, I'm dying to know. Paul. What, what has your experience been like becoming a again?

[00:12:52] Paul de Vries: Oh, it is. It is horrifying and satisfying in the same, in the same time. In the same time. I want, uh, for example, um, we are building out the dealership, right? The. Right. And, uh, French people ask me to set up a light box and, uh, I don't know the English word, but outside, uh, and pull of six meters, et cetera.

[00:13:20] Right. And I ask my, um, my guy, which also makes all the signing on, on all, all my buildings for the last 20 years. What does that cost me? So he sent me an quote of 15,000. With the same, uh, with the same colors, with the same, everything is the same. Then the, then the friends are saying, no, it has to be through our supplier.

[00:13:45] I said, that's fine. Either 40,000. I said, where's the difference. Oh, but we are paying with the other one as well. We are giving you an, an, an, an, uh, bonus for that. I said, okay, how much is that bonus of 25,000 then 500. And then, you know, okay. We didn't change that much. Right on, on the other hand, it's very satisfying that it starting the dealership again, because I was a formers young dealer and Korean brand and a Chrysler dealer back in the day in 2009.

[00:14:25] And then I started the new auto cope dot L website, which sold eBay after that. And when you are writing a lot about how dealers should work. It is a very good example to say, I'm right. And you can prove it that you are right. It's a very expensive way to say I'm right. but still it is something I love to do.

[00:14:50] Um, and I can have all my ideas in place to work it out, to try to pilot it and then can write an article about it. H how it worked, why it didn't work or. Why it's was a good idea to begin with? Yeah.

[00:15:08] Michael: Well, I have to say congratulations because I know ever. You and I have known each other, you've expressed your goal of owning a dealership again.

[00:15:16] And so the fact that you're making that happen, I think is nothing short of tremendous. So congratulations. Um, and also the bonus is you're already bald, so you don't have any more hair to lose. Pardon me

[00:15:32] Paul de Vries: old guys now entering, entering. Does she agree with me? No, she didn't like that. I was deadbolt.

[00:15:41] Michael: Ah, you know, well look, some people, if all goes steer still here. Let me offer some fresh perspective. Hi. Hi Olga. Hi, this is the way I say you're. You're not losing your hair. You're gaining more face. perfect.

[00:15:59] That's a good

[00:15:59] one.

[00:16:03] Michael: well, that's fantastic. Good to see you. Um, well, certainly, congratulations. I love that now. And by the way, I'm keeping all of that in, because I love that we got some FaceTime with your beautiful wife. Um, now. in that light

[00:16:24] mm-hmm knowing now that you're a dealer mm-hmm has that changed. I want to get into these six steps, but first I'm curious if your thought process about these six steps is changing as you're thinking about your dealership. Mm-hmm

[00:16:44] Paul de Vries: Yes. And no, because, um, the proof in the pudding was already our numbers at Toyota at at Kia, et cetera. Right. So, um, the proof of the dding was that it worked right that we have success with an higher conversion, better, um, better customer satisfaction because the lead were handled probably et cetera. Uh, but on the other hand, Um, for the not so successful deals, we help, uh, there are always people over there at, at the dealership, salespeople, which always want to argue with you, why it doesn't work.

[00:17:23] And I want to have a place where everything is going to be my way. And if I'm doing a consultancy job, when I'm leaving the, the building, then they can do whatever they want. Right. And I want to be that example that say, Hey, I'm I want to teach you something, but I can show you also that I'm doing the same stuff over my dealer.

[00:17:48] As well, and that's one of the forms. I, uh, I wanted to try out the new the dealership, but also try out different things. So one of the things we developed. Is the live store. So on the website in business hours and business hours are from nine o'clock in the morning till nine o'clock in the evening. Um, there is a button on the website, which will say live store and the live store will trigger with one click on the button, a FaceTime conversation with the people in the dealership.

[00:18:22] Mm. And the people in the FA uh, in the, the dealership will have a FaceTime conversation with the consumer on the other hand. And because the experience center should not be the experience center as building, but foremost, it should be the studio for the website. So the website is going first and the experience center is going second.

[00:18:47] So the experience center has to build, uh, the, uh, build the trust for the website, not the other way around. Right. So people can have a FaceTime conversation asking for the models to call us, et cetera. In real time without entering information, like name, phone number, et cetera, but only one click on the button, FaceTime conversation and you, and you can talk to people face to face and show them all the colors.

[00:19:13] That's one of the things I want to try out before I'm going to introduce that to 300 salespeople by, with, by the way, 290 people will be against it because they don't. Themself in a FaceTime conversation. Right? So if I can prove that first, that is not that hard, then we have a better conversation.

[00:19:37] Michael: Yeah.

[00:19:38] And I was gonna say that that's gonna be a huge departure from what we're used to, because it's like, no, I gotta I've, I, I must capture the consumer's information. So I know who I'm speaking to and what they're engage their interest level. You're saying no, let's bypass all of that. I wanna clarify something you you're saying that the experiences to line up the website is that because you're thinking about, um, an online, um, transaction.

[00:20:07] Sort

[00:20:07] Paul de Vries: of thing, like, yeah. Yeah. So the website is first in, in, in, in, uh, in my mind. So that is my most important shop where I can attract the most people because internet is never a wonder miracle. It is just a tool on skill to talk to more people than I can do in a physical. Right. And so that's the benefit of the online experience, but the on the online website at itself will not sell a car more or less, uh, because you are doing it online with a button by me now, online, because back in the day in 2001, I already had that button by me now online.

[00:20:50] So that's nothing new, but on the other hand, OGA has a. Right. And in the shop, the first shop is the Instagram shop. The second one is the mark PLA shop. And the third one is the physical shop in that order. Yeah, and Instagram will build the physical shop and the physical shop will build the Instagram follow up.

[00:21:16] And that's the same game plan we are going to do with, uh, with the dealership to make the website first, most dominant and experience center users as a studio to develop trust on that hand. Mm, right, because I'm speaking to two people or 10 people a day physical in the shop, but I can talk to 200 people online when they are.

[00:21:44] And if I'm doing all the, all the borders, et cetera, to give information, give information, I'm going to talk to free people. Right. And 100 people.

[00:21:54] Michael: Right. This is, uh, I, I love the way that you're thinking this through. And I think, you know, giving that option ma making yourself more accessible to the consumer in my estimation can only result in good connections, increased relationship.

[00:22:13] And to your point, that overall experience that the customer have, I think is gonna be enhanced through that, but you'll have to keep us in the loop on. How that, how that evolves and what you're learning in that process. And certainly everybody that's listening should be following Paul on LinkedIn because he talks all about that will link to his LinkedIn profile in the show

[00:22:33] Paul de Vries: notes.

[00:22:34] No, but on, on the other end, we are going to try out, so the online, offline experience combined, we can. Call that omnichannel or whatever. Right. Uh, but on the other hand, we are going to try out the dealer and the agency model as well. So I have an, an, I have three big places in my neighborhood, RM and SU.

[00:22:56] It's in my region, which I have to make. I have now three dealers, which are going to be my agents so that there will be my offline marketing. So the cars will be there on their facilities with. QR and codes, et cetera. Mm-hmm but somebody is going to scan that and we can make an appointment with that consumer there with a FaceTime conversation or physical, or on the location of the consumer.

[00:23:27] I'm going to pay them a fee. If I'm going to sell the car to them, I'm going to pay them a bigger fee. And they are going to do the, uh, the handoff and, uh, and the technical, um, maintenance of the car, if they don't want to do that because they want to sell the car by themself, they can have an invoice of me.

[00:23:49] Right. So I want to be the hybrid of offline online, and I want to be the hybrid of a dealer and agency model combined because I don't believe a thing about what is doing now or stall is doing now because it will, it will only work when the demand is high and the supply is low, but in a normal circumstance, it will not work.

[00:24:09] Mm

[00:24:11] Michael: that's a good point. Let me ask you, then I want to transition a little bit into these six steps. Mm-hmm can you walk us through, I, I know those listening are saying Michael promised us six steps course 10 minutes ago. What are the, so can you walk us through. What's taken you now the last four or five years or more to, to develop and, and maybe some examples of what that would look like for, uh, a dealership to implement.

[00:24:41] Paul de Vries: Yeah, of course. So we started now with an other OEM, um, and they, uh, they, um, have an response time, mandatory response time on leads, online leads for the, the dealers of 30 minutes. So they're asking their dealers. To be responding to, to deletes in 30 minutes. Um, and that's the only KPI there I giving the dealers, eh, be great, be, uh, and be fast and, and call delete or respond to delete within 30 minutes, we are asking them.

[00:25:18] Why 30 minutes they have, uh, surveys they have, um, and content about 30 minutes. Right? And then we are going to say about the four traces of the consumer nowadays at the four traces of the consumer. Nowadays we are working with iPhone. We are going to bed with the iPhone. We are going to public. Toilet with the iPhone, et cetera.

[00:25:40] The iPhone is everywhere or the phone at itself. Right. Right. But if somebody who you don't know are calling you, you won't pick up the phone. So the response time is very, is very big because if you are in the moment to submit information, to, to submit a lead and submit, uh, and request request information, you are in that moment, you have only two minutes to respond.

[00:26:06] If you are later than that, the chance on the voicemail, the chance that. People are not picking up or no have attention whatsoever is very big. The second rate of the consumer nowadays, we have no time whatsoever. We have no patience whatsoever. You have children in some ages. When you shut up the, the wifi for one second, there are, there are screaming for something, eh, uh, and you can say that as well on the, what.

[00:26:35] If you send out a WhatsApp, if you are using WhatsApp, eh, and you send a message to your wife where you need the answer and you see the blue remarks and you are not getting the answer back, then you basically say zero because you need that information. So two of the four traits are very important in lead follow up.

[00:26:55] So we are saying on the first step, you need to follow up within five minutes. And all dealers will be crazy because it cannot work. It cannot happen. It it's not workable, et cetera, but we are using an American system, the cold rep system. And that is a system which actually, and gives you a call. When an inbound call when somebody submit information through an online lead.

[00:27:22] So it forces you to pick up the phone. So it's actually an enforcement tool. So the five minutes or the two minutes is the most easy step of the six step. Because that is something which if you pick up the phone, then it will work. But the second step is that we made a process manual of 45 pages where we lay out the tactics.

[00:27:44] It's about 20 years of experience in 45 pages about lead handling about scripting, email scripting as me scripting personal scripting, uh, WhatsApp, scripting, et cetera. How it should work and it is not the Bible, but on the other hand, if you work the system like that, you will be successful. The step free is making the salespeople important.

[00:28:09] Not saying the PDC is there to help. You know, we invested a lot of time and money and efforts on the sales people. You have to be controlling the lead. We think you are important because if I'm calling a dealer in Holland and I ask him physically, I'm interesting in one of your cars, who do I want to.

[00:28:31] Who do I need to talk to? He's going to say the sales people, but then I'm going to say, Hey, but if I'm calling, who should I speak to, then he will say the sales people, but then when I'm submitting an, a lead with a form, then it should be a BBC. It makes no sense whatsoever. So we are making it very blunt to the sales people that they are important.

[00:28:56] The fourth step is the minimum acceptable performance. I'm getting that from CLA P on the DMS C where you went to last month. Mm-hmm and that was about seven years ago. They were talking about the minimum acceptable performance of 36%. So 100 leads. You need 36% conversion rate on appointments. So one, because one KPI is never KPI.

[00:29:27] So in Holland, and I know for sure that America knows such salespeople existing, but they're getting the phone call, listening to the whisper, waiting for one ring to go to. To the client and then hung up the phone and then saying, Hey, I was calling within five minutes, but the client don't pick up the phone.

[00:29:50] I did my job, right? So you never trust one KPI show you need in second KPI. But if they are selling the appointments, the seal will happen. But if they, if they don't selling the appointments, the seal will never happen. So that's the fourth step. The fifth step is inspect what you expect. Of course, listen to all the calls.

[00:30:13] So we listen to thousand of calls in the Netherlands in Germany now, and in Belgium, what happened in the call? Because the perception of the sales people can have I made an appointment, but without a date and a time, it is never an appointment. Right? So the assumption of the sales people, I don't trust.

[00:30:35] Eh, I want to know it for sure, because the lead is in most cases for salespeople in the Netherlands in Europe free, but there is an obligation to do it. Right. And we have another system. So we have to pay salespeople on very good salary. We have to pay them sick leave. We have to pay them holiday days, et cetera.

[00:30:55] And they only have to show up. So you have to, you have to push them on the other. To control them, actually, what they are doing and control is fine. If you can explain why it happens, the leads are free, but there is an obligation to do it, right. And the sixth step is coaching. And I always refer to the dry sponge technique.

[00:31:19] So if you REM, if you can emphasize in dry sponge in yellow, one and hard one, and you take out a glass of water and you will spit it out. About 80% of the water will spill off. That's the brain of a salespeople. If you, if you train them for free four hours. It will splice off. It will not go into their brain, but if you train them for every every day, five minutes to listen to his calls and give audio feedback on the call on the conversation and send them through an email to them through the call web system, you will train them every day for only five minutes.

[00:32:01] So the six steps is north star. You need to follow up within five minutes, the second lead process manual. Give them the content in video, in text, et cetera, how to do their job on lead handling the free is making them important. Make them feel important as well as their striker as the quarterback, or I don't know what the striker is in American football, but whatever.

[00:32:29] Eh, fourth is the map, the minimum acceptable performance. What are we aiming for after the five minutes? And then step five and six is inspect what you expect. We expect 36% conversion. If the salespeople are saying I have 60. That's fine, but I want to check that as well, uh, from a different source, with a different set of eyes and ears and six coaching.

[00:32:56] So we started with some OEMs and for example, we started with 8.9% conversion, 60,000 leads. And we diverted that to 17.2% after three years. And that's on scale with 300 salespeople, 100 stores. So it, it will work if you do the sixth step, it will never work. If you are only implementing a tool because with the full, a full, with a tool is still the full

[00:33:30] So, and give me, and, and, and sledgehammer, I cannot do anything, but. I,

[00:33:37] Michael: I think we need to make a shirt that says a fool with a tool is still a fool. Yeah. Is still a fool. I love that. Yeah. Um, is there any, in your opinion, Is there any room for a hybrid BDC sales department? We

[00:33:59] Paul de Vries: have because, um, the BDC, uh, I'm owning is the escalation part of the, uh, of the OEMs.

[00:34:08] So we are working with about six, seven OEMs when the phone call is. Is coming to the dealership through the call rep system. And nobody picks up the phone because they are all in deliveries. They're all in sales conversation, whatever the case will be. If that's the truth. Mm-hmm , we are ringing once, twice, three time, four times, fifth times, six times.

[00:34:33] But the six time is going over to our BDC as. Because we want to have an structure that the lead follow up will be happening within five minutes. The first chance is going to the salespeople. The second chance is going to the BDC as well, because the conversation with the client should be happening within the five minutes.

[00:34:56] Right? So the BDC is still part of the game. As an escalation, not as, as, as the quarterback, not as the most important one. And then you can also see the numbers that the really good sales people are doing twice, that much appointments than BDC, because they are better. The average sales people is losing from the BDC and that's what we have to train.

[00:35:22] Michael: Hmm. The, the other thought that comes to my mind, and as we close down here is. I would imagine by implementing and training these six steps, the, the sales people are more fulfilled. There's probably less turnover in the dealership because people are more satisfied with the work they do, because they're actually getting results.

[00:35:49] Paul de Vries: Yes. Yes and no. Uh, so in Europe you don't have to turn off, you have enough America, right? Right. Cause, um, the loyalty and goes two ways. Um, on the other hand, If sales people are having conversations with clients within one minute after two minutes, they're submitting a lead. People are very enthusiastic about that.

[00:36:13] Lead follow up. They are starting the conversation with a happy smile. Wow. That's fast or something like that. That's the fuel you need as a sales people. If the, if the other end is responding in a good way, eh, because. If somebody's picking up phone, you don't get exciting about that one. You have to pump yourself, right.

[00:36:35] But if the customer is actually ly happy to you, because you are calling as a salesperson that gives you the fuel, you need to have the best conversation you will ever have. And that's fulfilling.

[00:36:49] Michael: I love it. One last question for you. Um, do you have that 45 pages in.

[00:36:56] Paul de Vries: Yes. Yes. Actually, I made that for, uh, the human OEM in Saudi Arabia.

[00:37:03] Oh, cool. And I cannot Arab. I, I cannot write Arab, so I, I made it in English, so

[00:37:11] Michael: yes, I have amazing. Well, we will link to that in the show notes as well. For all of you listening, you're curious what that 45 pages contains and how you can improve

[00:37:21] Paul de Vries: for the lazy ones. I have a summary of two pages. .

[00:37:27] Michael: Uh,

[00:37:28] Paul de Vries: English, right.

[00:37:29] And in

[00:37:29] Michael: German. Well, we're gonna, we're gonna have to, uh, we're gonna have to split test and see which one gets more downloads from the show notes. Um, I already have my guesses, Paul, thanks so much for joining me on the show as always, it's a delight to sit down and get to spend some time with you.

[00:37:45] Paul de Vries: But thank you so much for everything, for your friendship and for the opportunity to be here again.

[00:37:51] And for the, for the awesome time we have in Kentucky as well.

[00:37:56] Michael: Yes. We had some experiences didn't we? Yeah. How can those listening get in touch with you and learn more?

[00:38:02] Paul de Vries: The best way to connect is LinkedIn. Uh, Paul Dre, 1972 is the name cause it's the most common name in Holland. So, uh, or on Instagram or Facebook or, uh, and if you want to see the documentary about the, the dealership we are doing every month in documentary about all the steps we do, we are doing with the dealership, it is in touch, but you can see what we are doing.

[00:38:31] Michael: I love it. Thanks again, my friend. Thank

[00:38:34] Paul de Vries: you.

[00:38:37] Michael: Boom. There it

[00:38:38] Paul de Vries: is. Thank you, man. Thank you.